sand duners view on spring issues

[T3ch_N9ne]

This is my take on it from a SAND duners point of view.Which will be a lot different from a dirt riders view. When riding in sand, you need the best hookup you can possibly get. That is why they made paddle tires. You dont want to just spin or bury yourself, you want to stay on top, hookup and go. Think of it as being in a boat with two oars on the lake. The boat (quad) needs to stay afloat while the oars (paddles) need to "dig in" to the water to propel the boat foreward.

My launching technique i learned from KevinM. Hold the back break in completely, and give it just enough gas to engage the belt but not enough to move the quad. If you dont do that, you wont ever get a good holeshot and will most likely lose.

When i first hit the sand with the V, i was stock besides 22inch paddle tires.
When i did short drags and hillshoots, i could get the holeshot like no other but then i would hit the "wall" and a few other bikes could catch me and pass me at the VERY end of the drag or shoot.

Then i modded, and now i have dmc duals,k&n,dg snorkel, carbon man hood, dalton clutch cover. Im experimenting with the dalton weights and an assortment of springs.

I first tried the polaris yellow spring (45/178) in the sand and didnt get the holeshot whats so ever so i lost short hillshoots and drags. After i left the line though (which felt like forever because i just spun,) it started to pull like a freight train. When my buddies and i were flying down a wide open strech of sand, i could easily let off the gas for a second or two then punch it again and catch back up with them and pass them up. They were riding modded raptors at the time. Needless to say, i felt like God at that moment.

So then i figured i needed less stall (going against what a lot of people thought) so i put in the comet black (38/172) and tried that out. I actually got a half-a$$ed holeshot on a short hillshoot with this spring and was barely able to beat my buddies by 1 or 2 lengths, but it wasnt enough to satisfy me. It pulled somewhat hard, but not as hard as the yellow.

Moving on, i decided to put in the dalton weights and try them out with the polaris yellow. I expected to get a way better holeshot but i didnt expect it to pull that hard through the powerband. (which is why i chose the yellow with more shiftout)
So i took that setup out on the sand but never got to drag or hillshoot with anyone. (long story) I did drag myself a few times to get a feel of it and the holeshot felt pretty good (could have been better) but it didnt want to pull all that hard or fast. Its hard to say whether or not i would have won a drag with this. If i would have, it would of been by a hair. This time though, i put on 24inch paddles instead of 22's which helped with the hooking up. It was somewhat easy to ride wheelies over little hills with the setup i had. I still had to pull up occasionally to get it up. I think if i had less stall, the front end would have been coming up like crazy when i wanted and even not wanted it too.

So now im going to try the hpd plain with dalton weights and since my muzzy is on the way, im going to slap that on as well. With my new 24's and the somewhat low stall i will have, Im hoping i will get a great holeshot but im not sure how it will pull compared to the yellow. Im thinking it will overdue it but i dont know because i will be shooting uphill which will be putting a load on it. The dunes i shoot arent all that tall, but they are somewhat steep. I think most of them are around 65 foot tall or less and i start the drag another 35 to 40 feet away from the bottom of the dune. Total thats a little over 100 feet which isnt all that much. Either way, the setup should be enough to spank a lot of the other riders. Hopefully i wont be too busy popping wheelies and forget to even drag race!

If the hpd plain does over rev it then if i can get a hold of some rivets, i might try those with it. If that doesnt do it, i think i will be looking for a zero to low stall spring and about 175-185 shiftout spring to experiment with in the sand. Then i have to add the fact that the muzzy exhaust is suppse to be a torque beast. That would give me even better drag results. Anyways, thats my thoughts of the spring issues from a duners point of view. More to come.

[upnorthbacon]

I have a question about your starts. I'm going to be buying paddles soon and my duals will be here shortly. I have the epi pink spring (Will be getting dalton weights and cover this summer) and K&N and rerouted snorkle. I'm afraid I can't justify the Extreme Hauler price so I'm going to buy 22 inch haulers or maybe even sand stars if they hook up decent. Right now my buddy rides a basically stock banshee (Airbox mods) and we drag in fields and such and I get the jump on him and keep him off until he hits sixth gear then he barely walks past me. (On pavement he smokes me) I haven't ridden with paddles on this thing so I don't know what to expect in the sand.
Anyway on to my question...How do you sit/stand when you start. I've been standing up and launching without using the brake and I'm getting pretty good at my throttle control on take off. I tried sitting way foward on the airbox and the seat and I'm not getting off the line as consistant. With paddles are you guys sitting or standing? (I'm only interested in holeshots using springs with low stall) I'm not a serious drag racer where I want a wheelie bar or straps on the front, I was just wondering how your positioning your body. I read about the brake/torque type starts but haven't tried them yet.

[T3ch_N9ne]

When i had my 22's on when i was stock, i just sat back on the seat to provide lbs for traction because the front end never came up. Once in a great while it did. Now with my mods and 24's the front end pops up easily so i sit back on the seat to provide a little weight so i wont move when im holding the break and giving it a little gas then i throw myself over the bars once i punch the throttle to keep the front down. Sometimes if its just me or a bud, i will casually lean over the bars then when i take off i will put all that i can over the bars. The force of you throwing your weight from the back of the seat to over the bars helps a lot too. Just practice different techniques until you find one that works and is consistant.

Expect a big change when you ride the sand. Its totally different from dirt. Sand robs hp like no other, so at times you might feel like your quad is running poorly until you take it back out on the hard dirt.

[3TV]

Try the plain spring without any shims. That will give you a lower stall, and with the plain spring you have plenty of shiftout to work with anyway, so it is ok to decrease both by about 10 when you remove the shim.

[T3ch_N9ne]

I took the stock shim out when i first started modding and havent put it back in since. I did order 2 other ones just in case i needed them for a different setup. But are you saying a single shim will increase the rates of a spring by 10? Thats a little skeptical..but if its true, why hasnt anyone told me YET!!

[helix]

The FIRST(stock )shim sits on a taper down in there,and has more effect than additional ones that only add the actual thickness of the shim.

[T3ch_N9ne]

I see. Thanks for clearing that up. Heres another one for ya. The stock spring in the V is rated 0/122 from what ive read. Is that with or without the stock shim in place?

[Killer__Shee]

I am running the full Dalton kit as well. I am using the HPD plain with no shims and the stall is near stock, but it pulls like a freight train in the upper RPMs. The additional RPMs the plain gives is great for shooting hills and what not. The 24" tires are going to hook up better, but I have the 22" tires and have no problem with them what-so-ever. The V will climb anything you point it at with 22" Skat-Trak Edges, and the V shaped paddle makes sliding in the sand pure enjoyment. I run straight paddles when I ride Banshees and the hookup is amazing, but for all around play riding I prefer the Edges. Whatever you do, don't buy cheap paddle tires.

[T3ch_N9ne]

yeah, i just got my plain in the mail today. Too bad i took my duals off or i would have slapped that puppy on and tried her out. I will have to wait till i get my muzzy exhaust now. Im leaving thursday night for LS. yahooooo.
Wish i went with the V shaped paddles though instead of the 24's. The straights are no fun unless your shooting. Im still deciding on front tires. I already know sand tires for the fronts help with steering but im not sure which ones i want. I like the ones that you had or still have on your shee but i also like the itp dual ribbed ones. It would be nice to go with skat trak all around but if the itps maybe performed better i would get those. Your thoughts?

[Killer__Shee]

I actually don't care for the Skat-Trak fronts. I have had much better luck with the tires that have a solid center rib rather than a shark-fin style. The ITP fronts with the dual rib just might be the hot ticket for precise turning in the sand.