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Discussion Starter #1
Would you run this chain for a little while or is it done?
 

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Looks like it's warn enough to start having problems with smooth link operation. Heat also can do that. With that said I would replace it...and any other chain that had over 5000 miles or stretched enough to use half the tensioner clicks regardless how it was working.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Looks like it's warn enough to start having problems with smooth link operation. Heat also can do that. With that said I would replace it...and any other chain that had over 5000 miles or stretched enough to use half the tensioner clicks regardless how it was working.
These chains aren't that old, so I think it was the heat that did it.
But it seems to not be stretched. I don't know. Sure would save me if I could run it like this just for a couple more months.....
 

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These chains aren't that old, so I think it was the heat that did it.
But it seems to not be stretched. I don't know. Sure would save me if I could run it like this just for a couple more months.....
Well..if the links are seizing or not working smoothly...or are loose or stretched ..there just isn't much choice...IMO. If it fails...then it could be ...very hard on the wallet.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well..if the links are seizing or not working smoothly...or are loose or stretched ..there just isn't much choice...IMO. If it fails...then it could be ...very hard on the wallet.
You're right.
Do you think if the chains got hot enough to do this that the brand new piston/rings got cooked too?
I have put 500 miles on it since it overheated, and it has been running clean until Monday when all of a sudden it started blowing blue smoke on start up. I'm kinda thinking the rings might be ok, and the blue smoke came from a leaking valve seal or something in the front cylinder that I haven't torn into yet.
 

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You're right.
Do you think if the chains got hot enough to do this that the brand new piston/rings got cooked too?
I have put 500 miles on it since it overheated, and it has been running clean until Monday when all of a sudden it started blowing blue smoke on start up. I'm kinda thinking the rings might be ok, and the blue smoke came from a leaking valve seal or something in the front cylinder that I haven't torn into yet.
I'm thinking from what the valves and seats look like that two seals got toasted and started leaking..might check the guides for extra play or signs of scaring...but it takes a bit more then that to toast or break rings because of the constant sling of oil off the throw. And that it shows the blue smoke at start-up after sitting a while says it's running down the valve stems. If the rings were gone it would smoke all the time and have low compression.

Is there any signs that the chain was oil-starved? How do the sprockets look? And weird wear marks?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'm thinking from what the valves and seats look like that two seals got toasted and started leaking..might check the guides for extra play or signs of scaring...but it takes a bit more then that to toast or break rings because of the constant sling of oil off the throw. And that it shows the blue smoke at start-up after sitting a while says it's running down the valve stems. If the rings were gone it would smoke all the time and have low compression.

Is there any signs that the chain was oil-starved? How do the sprockets look? And weird wear marks?
I'm hoping the blue smoke is coming from the front cylinder. I'm tearing into it now to see.
Back cylinder valve seals weren't leaking a drop from the looks of them. The seats were not sealing against the valve head but that wouldn't explain blue smoke would it?

Sprocket looks normal. No weird mark's that I saw, but I'll have to look at it a little closer.
Don't know how to tell if chain was oil starved, but I doubt it was. Oil levels were always kept good.
 

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I'm hoping the blue smoke is coming from the front cylinder. I'm tearing into it now to see.
Back cylinder valve seals weren't leaking a drop from the looks of them. The seats were not sealing against the valve head but that wouldn't explain blue smoke would it?

Sprocket looks normal. No weird mark's that I saw, but I'll have to look at it a little closer.
Don't know how to tell if chain was oil starved, but I doubt it was. Oil levels were always kept good.
Just look at the contact areas of both the chain and the sprocket. Oil returns to the pan down the chain chambers and supposed to dump onto the chain as it goes. Sometimes in low-flow situations to the head the chain doesn't always get all it needs and the links ...and the contact areas get hot and score...more then normal. Tensioner bars wear faster too. Just wondering why that chain acts like it does.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The sprocket has some small wear marks but nothing crazy. The front chain is good, so it appears it was a heat issue on the rear cylinder.

On a side note though, the damn chainguide got hung up in the front head when I pulled the head off, and 2 little chunks are missing now. I can't find them. If they went down the chain hole, is that going to be a problem?

They broke off the top of the middle section just above my thumb.
75624
 

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Probably not. Been worse things then that laying on the bottom of engine cases...lol. If you are changing oil, might drop the plug and after most of the oil is out, pour some down the chain channel and it might wash them to and out the drain. Otherwise might go fishing with some mechanical grabbers. Probably still straight down below.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Probably not. Been worse things then that laying on the bottom of engine cases...lol. If you are changing oil, might drop the plug and after most of the oil is out, pour some down the chain channel and it might wash them to and out the drain. Otherwise might go fishing with some mechanical grabbers. Probably still straight down below.
I can't remember what the bottom of the cylinder/top of the case looks like, but that front chain drops down into the sprocket housing of the intermediate shaft. There's not much room there for it to land in, and there'snot much room to get past the chain either. And it would probably get chewed up pretty quick and wind up in a million pieces in the filter....if it's in there at all. Might be in my oil bucket or on the floor somewhere. I guess there's no sense worrying about it. I'm not splitting the case on a "maybe" just to find it. I know one guy that dropped a screw into his Prairie 650 engine and it never came back to bite him....yet.😆
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Well, found the reason it was smoking the blues again....

Honestly, DON'T EVER USE OEM VALVE SEALS. THEY SUCK. This is the third set of them that has leaked. Do yourself a huge favor and get Kibblewhite Viton seals. They don't leak a drop.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Well, found the reason it was smoking the blues again....

Honestly, DON'T EVER USE OEM VALVE SEALS. THEY SUCK. This is the third set of them that has leaked. Do yourself a huge favor and get Kibblewhite Viton seals. They don't leak a drop.
75626
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Sh*t man....you have the damnedest luck here lately. The guides are in spec..right?
Yep, now you know why I say I have a little black cloud that follows me.😄

Yeah, I think the guides are in spec. We replaced two of them when the valves were put in. And they vacuum test the heads before they leave the shop.
 

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Yeah, I think the guides are in spec. We replaced two of them when the valves were put in. And they vacuum test the heads before they leave the shop.
Good cause if the guide-to-stem tolerance is too loose it won't matter what seal you use...it will wobble around and consistently break-seal and let oil through. It will also cause seat surfaces to wear much faster as well because they are never centered when closing. I wonder if you can put a different type seal in...like a better umbrella type.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Good cause if the guide-to-stem tolerance is too loose it won't matter what seal you use...it will wobble around and consistently break-seal and let oil through. It will also cause seat surfaces to wear much faster as well because they are never centered when closing. I wonder if you can put a different type seal in...like a better umbrella type.
I just got it back from the machine shop. The valve guides are perfect. The seals were wiggling around the top of the nipple. Terrible. Those seals were bought just last year. I bought ten and used the best 8. Made no difference at all.
 

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I just got it back from the machine shop. The valve guides are perfect. The seals were wiggling around the top of the nipple. Terrible. Those seals were bought just last year. I bought ten and used the best 8. Made no difference at all.
I wouldn't use any of those bastards ever again. Did a little search and there are some way better seals out there.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yep, stick a fork in this one.
75629
 

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Discussion Starter #20
7000 miles on these other chains, and they look just about like the new ones:
75631
 
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