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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Need some opinions on what is going on here.
Ever since I put a new sleeve, rings, and piston in my front cylinder, I have been getting a gurgling sound of coolant when I run it hard. I thought it might have been a bad rad cap or air bubbles in the cooling system, but I have replaced the cap and poured the coolant in extremely slowly like I always do. The temp light has never come on, the fan works, and there has never been any coolant blown out onto the ground or otherwise. It just gurgles really loudly into the tank for a few minutes, then sounds like it's coming from inside the engine.
I am starting to think my new sleeve may have slipped and caused a gap that is being pressurized by the combustion chamber. If that's true, is there harm in running it that way as long as it doesn't blow coolant out the overflow? Or is it something else? I really can't pull the engine apart right now. 馃槙
 

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If the sleeve slipped..IMO.. it would be "Katty-bar-the-door". There would be so much escaping into the case and..if the old sleeve was fully removed, into the water jacket as well as coolant back to the cylinder it wouldn't want to run. My gut says there is either a hot spot or under high heat the head gasket is leaking. If it were mine I would take it to a shop that could test for exhaust gasses in the coolant system. If they detest some...you know there is a problem. I might also first re-torque the head..maybe a couple lbs over spec...just to see if that made any difference.

Is the recovery tank gaining coolant? Is that new cylinder running noticeably hotter then the other using an IR reader? How's the plug looking?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If the sleeve slipped..IMO.. it would be "Katty-bar-the-door". There would be so much escaping into the case and..if the old sleeve was fully removed, into the water jacket as well as coolant back to the cylinder it wouldn't want to run. My gut says there is either a hot spot or under high heat the head gasket is leaking. If it were mine I would take it to a shop that could test for exhaust gasses in the coolant system. If they detest some...you know there is a problem. I might also first re-torque the head..maybe a couple lbs over spec...just to see if that made any difference.

Is the recovery tank gaining coolant? Is that new cylinder running noticeably hotter then the other using an IR reader? How's the plug looking?
It's weird...the recovery tank is just under the full line when the engine is cold, and most of the time I'm riding. But if I really run it hard, then it does fill up the tank about two inches above the top of the window, but no more. It doesn't blow it out the overflow hose at the top of the tank. And it sucks it back down to below the full line in about 20 minutes of letting it sit.

I haven't got an I reader, but I can definitely tell the gurgling is NOT coming from the rear cylinder.

I will pull the plug today and let you know what it looks like.

BTW, this was the second sleeve I had to get for this project because the machine shop said the first one "spun" inside the jug when they began to bore it. They paid for another sleeve, and said the second sleeve was better quality. After the job was done, they sort of admitted that re-sleeving for small engines wasn't something they do a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
And then running searches this morning, I found this:
76678
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hmm..well John should know...he's seen it all. :)
What do you think about adding some Bars head gasket sealer to the coolant? I've never liked the idea of putting goop in my engine, but geez....
 

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What do you think about adding some Bars head gasket sealer to the coolant? I've never liked the idea of putting goop in my engine, but geez....
IDK...these small systems with such small ports, radiators and pump impellers worry me about adding stuff like that. Something with no pellets or chunks maybe...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It sounds like stop-leak just makes more overheating issues than it solves in these engines.
Not going that route.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Tore into it again today to see what's going on, and just as I got the coolant drained, VFJ messaged me. He said you CANNOT re-sleeve these engines. The shelf at the top of the jug is only 1/8" thick, and it will not support the entire sleeve. The sleeve gets wet, and under high pressure, it will slip. It may not be noticeable to the naked eye, but it's there. You can't do anything but throw it away and start over with a used cylinder.
So, looks like I'm #$^%. Again.
What a shame. And it was running so well, and not burning any oil for once. Damnit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
That's not good news. Oh well..at least now we all know. Just buy a brand new cylinder and bore it for the piston.
Already in the works.
Wonder why I haven't heard of this before. I searched high and low and couldn't find where anyone had run into this problem before.
 

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Already in the works.
Wonder why I haven't heard of this before. I searched high and low and couldn't find where anyone had run into this problem before.
I had only heard about people sleeving them once in a blue moon..mostly replacing them with either new ones or ones that could be bored. I suppose there is a way to get around the problem with some extra machining.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
So I got it all apart last night. Can't see anything wrong with the headgasket, so it must be the sleeve.
Interesting looking at these new parts with less than 200 miles on them. The piston has more crud on it than I expected. Maybe the valve seals have been put on and taken off too many times. Probably going to order more of those.
Also, the honing has a few more lines in it than I like to see. They can't really be felt, so I hesitate to call them scratches, but they are a little disconcerting anyway.
Definitely going to order more circlips for the wristpin, but I wonder if I should also order some new rings? These look fine, but I've never reinstalled rings before. These are brand new with less than 200 miles.
What do you guys think?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Can't seem to post pics at the moment....
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Automotive tire Fluid Automotive wheel system Gas Auto part
 

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Automotive tire Blue Azure Crankset Automotive wheel system
 

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Hand Hood Automotive tire Blue Wood
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Liquid Fluid Cookware and bakeware Kitchen appliance Cuisine

The sleeve is definitely a bit below flush here...
 

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So I got it all apart last night. Can't see anything wrong with the headgasket, so it must be the sleeve.
Interesting looking at these new parts with less than 200 miles on them. The piston has more crud on it than I expected. Maybe the valve seals have been put on and taken off too many times. Probably going to order more of those.
Also, the honing has a few more lines in it than I like to see. They can't really be felt, so I hesitate to call them scratches, but they are a little disconcerting anyway.
Definitely going to order more circlips for the wristpin, but I wonder if I should also order some new rings? These look fine, but I've never reinstalled rings before. These are brand new with less than 200 miles.
What do you guys think?
Can't re-use the rings. 99.99% broke-in to the old cylinder by now.

And along with the sleeve not at deck height like you say ( I can't tell by eye), I also see a oddity gap between it and the old sleeve on the first pic. Wonder how far it goes....and why. Stand it up and fill it with WD and see if it finds it's way all the way down. Could be a path for a hot spot..or some leakage back and forth from the crank case...maybe. Just fun to find out. I know the head gasket should seal it but with it like it is...it may not. Piston looks good..other then the carbon buildup already...that's weird...

Hay do me a favor, post your engine's serial number...the one stamped on the lower case. I got a guy I think bought an used engine for his Brute but the number looks to be for a 700 Prairie. I'm sure a VF700 or KVF700 isn't a Brute 750.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Can't re-use the rings. 99.99% broke-in to the old cylinder by now.

And along with the sleeve not at deck height like you say ( I can't tell by eye), I also see a oddity gap between it and the old sleeve on the first pic. Wonder how far it goes....and why. Stand it up and fill it with WD and see if it finds it's way all the way down. Could be a path for a hot spot..or some leakage back and forth from the crank case...maybe. Just fun to find out. I know the head gasket should seal it but with it like it is...it may not. Piston looks good..other then the carbon buildup already...that's weird...

Hay do me a favor, post your engine's serial number...the one stamped on the lower case. I got a guy I think bought an used engine for his Brute but the number looks to be for a 700 Prairie. I'm sure a VF700 or KVF700 isn't a Brute 750.
The stamp on the right side low is in there too far for a good picture, but it says:
VF700A6522278
 
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